AILSA CHANG, HOST:
All right. And now to the Trump administration's government efficiency team, or DOGE, which wants to see massive layoffs at the federal housing agency known as HUD. The deepest cuts would be targeted at the office that funds homelessness programs at a time when the number of people without housing is at a record high. NPR's Jennifer Ludden is here to explain. Hi, Jennifer.
JENNIFER LUDDEN, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, so what kind of staffing cuts is the Trump administration talking about here?
LUDDEN: Well, for the Department of Housing and Urban Development, overall, the goal is to cut half the staff.
CHANG: Wow.
LUDDEN: And now that's according to an internal document NPR has obtained. It has a timeline for cuts by late May. So, you know, that would be sweeping and likely affect everything HUD does. But there are different targets for different offices. And according to the document, the office that distributes several billion dollars to prevent homelessness faces the most severe loss, 84% of its employees.
CHANG: Wow.
LUDDEN: So a real gutting there. And that office...
CHANG: Yeah.
LUDDEN: ...Also funds affordable housing and disaster recovery.
CHANG: Wow. OK, so the idea of firing all of these people does raise the question of whether HUD could still do its job, right? Like, let's just start with homelessness programs. What could these cuts mean for that?
LUDDEN: Well, you know, basically, advocates worry that record-high homelessness would get even worse. I spoke with Ann Oliva. She's a former HUD official, and she now heads the National Alliance to End Homelessness. And she says HUD funds thousands of local nonprofits that work to keep people housed, and it takes manpower just to process all that money. She says the cuts would likely slow that down, and they'd hit people far beyond HUD headquarters in Washington, D.C.
ANN OLIVA: We are talking about staff who directly support their communities in field offices all over the country, and they have a specific set of expertise that allows this money to flow to the people who need it the most.
LUDDEN: And by the way, this homelessness money should be going out around this time, but the Trump administration has not confirmed or started sending it, which is making people nervous. Now, I asked HUD for comment, and a spokesperson says the agency is ensuring that it continues to deliver on its critical functions and its statutory responsibilities.
CHANG: OK. Well, what about the other work that HUD does, like, on housing itself? I imagine losing half of its employees would be a serious challenge, right?
LUDDEN: Yes, absolutely. And HUD does a lot, right? It subsidizes rent for millions of people. It helps create affordable housing. It ensures mortgages for first-time and low-income buyers, and there is concern that all that could be disrupted and eventually lead more people to lose housing. Now, beyond the layoffs, we are also getting more information about the kinds of housing policies the Trump administration has in mind for HUD.
CHANG: Fill us in.
LUDDEN: So I've just heard from a HUD employee in - who was in an all-staff meeting on Thursday. They don't want to use their name because they fear losing their job for speaking publicly about the agency's new political leadership. This person said a high-ranking HUD appointee told the all-staff he wants the agency to serve only U.S. citizens. So that could mean evicting people without legal status, even if their spouse or children qualify for housing aid.
This appointee also apparently talked about expanding work requirements for people in public housing and imposing time limits on housing aid. Now, all these things were either proposed in the first Trump administration, or they're laid out in the conservative policy agenda that's called Project 2025.
CHANG: That is NPR's Jennifer Ludden. Thank you, Jennifer.
LUDDEN: Thank you.
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