LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Yesterday was the latest federal hearing in the case of Rumeysa Ozturk. She's one of several international students on green cards or with visas who now face deportation over vague accusations of antisemitism or of aligning with Hamas. The Turkish doctoral student at Tufts University was picked up off the street on her way to dinner by masked immigration agents last month. It was caught on tape.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
RUMEYSA OZTURK: (Screaming). OK, OK.
FADEL: She's now being held in a Louisiana detention center ostensibly over an op-ed she co-authored in the student newspaper about the university's response to the Gaza war.
With us now to talk about what happened in that federal hearing in Vermont and what's at stake in this case is Ramzi Kassem. He's one of Ozturk's lawyers and the co-director of the nonprofit legal clinic CLEAR at City University of New York. Good morning, and thanks for being on the program.
RAMZI KASSEM: Good morning. Thank you, Leila.
FADEL: So, Ramzi, what came out of that three-hour hearing yesterday?
KASSEM: Well, yesterday, the federal judge in Vermont appropriately spent a long period of time hearing argument from both our legal team, on behalf of Ms. Ozturk, as well as the government's attorney, both on the question of whether or not this federal court in Vermont had the power to decide her habeas corpus petition challenging the constitutionality of her arrest and detention by ICE, as well as questions around her application for immediate release or her transfer back from Louisiana to ICE detention within the jurisdiction of the district court in Vermont.
FADEL: And so immediate release didn't come from that hearing. What's next for your client in this case?
KASSEM: So what's next is, you know, the court in Vermont has been treating this case with the appropriate amount of attention and urgency, and so we await the district court's decision on these two key questions. We hope that the court will find that it does have the power to hear her habeas corpus petition, and we also hope that the court will either set her free or at least bring her back to Vermont.
FADEL: Now, you're arguing that the Trump administration's attempt to deport Ozturk is unconstitutional. Can you lay that out for me?
KASSEM: Well, it's exactly as you all put it earlier in your segment. The government's assertion in this case is that it was appropriate to cancel her visa and take her off the streets of her college campus simply because she co-authored an op-ed that was critical of the university's response to student protests in defense of Palestinian rights and lives. Now, of course, that sort of writing should be welcomed, applauded, commended. It's very fundamental to be able to exercise your free speech in support of Palestinian human rights. But it certainly should not be cause in our country, which still purports to be an open society that cares about free speech, to be abducted off the streets by ICE agents in unmarked vans.
FADEL: Now, the Trump administration has generally talked about this case, saying that she's engaged in activities that support Hamas. It's something we've heard also about other international students. What evidence are they providing?
KASSEM: None whatsoever. And the Trump administration says all sorts of things outside of court. I think by now we all know not to pay too much heed to all of that. The only thing they have offered...
FADEL: What are they saying in court?
KASSEM: Well, what they have advanced in court is simply that she co-authored an op-ed.
FADEL: Now, the government also argues that the secretary of state has the discretion to do this under this rarely used Immigration and Nationality Act if he deems her presence, other people's presence, as a threat to U.S. foreign policy. And I should note he's revoked hundreds of student visas under this act. What do you make of that argument?
KASSEM: Well, they've actually withdrawn from that position, and so they're no longer saying that her visa was revoked on that basis.
FADEL: OK.
KASSEM: And in fact, The Washington Post reported that there is a State Department memo that actually responded to the Department of Homeland Security saying that it would not revoke on that basis. So what he did was in his - he just said, in his discretion, he's revoking her visa. And so it's even more opaque, even less transparent and even more outrageous, frankly, Leila.
FADEL: Right, and that memo which The Washington Post reported on was saying they just couldn't find any ties.
KASSEM: Exactly.
FADEL: Just really quickly before I let you go, you represent other students, including Mahmoud Khalil, a green card holder. In the few seconds we have left, what's at stake here over the future outcome of these cases?
KASSEM: What is at stake is not just limited to people's ability to speak out in defense of Palestinian rights and lives; it is the fundamental protection of free speech in this country. And that should concern all of us.
FADEL: OK.
KASSEM: All of us should care about the First Amendment and about due process.
FADEL: Ramzi Kassem is co-director of CLEAR, a legal nonprofit and clinic. Thank you for your time.
KASSEM: Thank you.
FADEL: NPR has extended invitations to Attorney General Pam Bondi and other Justice Department officials to join us for an interview on this program. So far, we haven't received a response. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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